|
Post by ChefEd on Sept 5, 2023 23:30:30 GMT
Beneath The Med Minelaying Missions Rule [6.7.2]With the exception of the Foca Class submarines, which have dedicated mine deploying apparatus, any boat which is assigned a minelaying mission must replace all torpedoes in tubes with mines. The only torpedoes carried are any that are reloads. Once the mission is successfully completed, the tubes may be reloaded with the allotted torpedo reloads. This basic rule also applies to other nationality submarines which do not have dedicated minelaying apparatus. Mines are deployed in the Second Mission Zone, AFTER rolling on the appropriate column in the Encounter Chart [A3]. At the end of the patrol, roll against the following table, to determine if any sinkings are attributed to your minelaying efforts. Roll 2d6Roll | Result | 2 | 2 Small freighters + 1 Tanker | 3 | 1 Small Freighter + 1 Warship | 4 | 1 Tanker | 5 | - | 6 | - | 7 | 1 Large Freighter | 8 | 1 Small Freighter + 1 Tanker | 9 | - | 10 | 1 Small Freighter + 1 Large Freighter | 11 | - | 12 | 1 Warship |
Randomly select a ship from the appropriate Target Rosters, [T1], [T2], etc, to match each type of enemy ship sunk, attributed to your mines. Apply these sunk ships to your patrol and career tallys.
|
|
|
Post by paukenschlager on Sept 6, 2023 0:45:22 GMT
Hi Ed,
Is this "inspired" by Raiders of the Deep's system? I seem to remember there was something similar in the rules.
|
|
|
Post by ChefEd on Sept 6, 2023 1:15:08 GMT
Hi Ed, Is this "inspired" by Raiders of the Deep's system? I seem to remember there was something similar in the rules. I know Raiders has a table when encountering mines. Did not see one about victories from mine laying, but I could have missed it. This table is one of four from Board Game Geek, that I found (I believe) under The Hunters. The four tables cover The Hunters, The Hunted, B eneath the Med, and Silent Victory. I created an Excel file that has all of the target from these four games. I automated the above mentioned "Attributed" tables, utilizing the four sets of targets. The automated tables provide Type, Name, and Tonnage.
|
|
|
Post by crushedhat on Sept 6, 2023 18:22:26 GMT
Not sue if ships/tonnage sunk has any impact in BtM. Buti f it does, how would you know your mines sunk a particular ship? In the past (Hunters/Hunted) I've never counted these toward awards/promotions, simply including at the end of my AAR something to the effect that "Postwar records analysis determined that ship(s) were likely sunk by the mines laid by submarine on this patrol."
|
|
|
Post by paukenschlager on Sept 6, 2023 19:42:04 GMT
[quote author=" crushedhat" source="/post/163/thread" how would you know your mines sunk a particular ship? [/quote] I believe there were cases in which newspaper clippings and articles revealed the sinking of this or that ship, especially if they were conspicuous vessels. I'd just pretend it's such a case and enjoy my "free" tonnage
|
|
|
Post by ChefEd on Sept 6, 2023 20:59:35 GMT
Not sue if ships/tonnage sunk has any impact in BtM. Buti f it does, how would you know your mines sunk a particular ship? In the past (Hunters/Hunted) I've never counted these toward awards/promotions, simply including at the end of my AAR something to the effect that "Postwar records analysis determined that ship(s) were likely sunk by the mines laid by submarine on this patrol." Makes sense not applying to promotions, etc. I have edited the original post to reflect that. I always thought that the tables were a little too generous, but I do not have any information to contradict. Not to muddy the waters too much, I have often wondered whether the encounters, and kills in the game represent what actually happened, or what was reported by the U-Boots. I am currently reading a number of accounts from/about the U-Boots, and found that many claims never happened, or were mis-reported. Got me to thinking maybe some sort of "odds" mechanism to cut down claims to realistic results. Then, I think, that might just suck the fun out of the game.
|
|
|
Post by crushedhat on Sept 7, 2023 23:41:47 GMT
I think it was fairly common among all navies to 'overreport' ships sunk, both actual sinkings, and the size of the ship. I know accounts of the Pacific theater include numerous cases of DDs reported as CAs or even BBs, and not just by the submarines; the flyboys did it too.
|
|
|
Post by crushedhat on Sept 7, 2023 23:44:32 GMT
[quote author=" crushedhat " source="/post/163/thread" how would you know your mines sunk a particular ship? I believe there were cases in which newspaper clippings and articles revealed the sinking of this or that ship, especially if they were conspicuous vessels. I'd just pretend it's such a case and enjoy my "free" tonnage [/quote] While there were reports of ships being sunk by mines, given the time difference I think it would be difficult to prove who gets the credit. That's where the post war analysis comes in; comparing Kriegsmarine records of who was sent to mine where and when with what ships fell victim to mines.
|
|
|
Post by ChefEd on Sept 7, 2023 23:45:58 GMT
One account I read showed that Gunther Prien wasn't immune to over reporting. His Scapa Flow reports were greatly exaggerated.
|
|
rodmod
Submarine Commander
Posts: 33
|
Post by rodmod on Sept 10, 2023 16:13:41 GMT
Minelaying could occasionally produce spectacular results. One Italian field eviscerated Malta-based Force K in late 1941. So I like the idea of rolling on a table to see if the mines you laid produced any sinkings. The table above might be on the generous side, but not inordinately so I think (got to think about game balance/fun versus strict historical accuracy).
I assume that word would often have filtered out eventually if a minefield was successful or not (after all, this would have been important for the strategists), so rolling for potential victims, say at the end of a minelaying patrol or during the subsequent refit month, and adding that total to your career is legit.
Whether it should count as tonnage for patrol/award/promotion purposes, well, that I'll leave up to the GMs. :-)
|
|
|
Post by ChefEd on Sept 10, 2023 16:41:59 GMT
Minelaying could occasionally produce spectacular results. One Italian field eviscerated Malta-based Force K in late 1941. So I like the idea of rolling on a table to see if the mines you laid produced any sinkings. The table above might be on the generous side, but not inordinately so I think (got to think about game balance/fun versus strict historical accuracy). I assume that word would often have filtered out eventually if a minefield was successful or not (after all, this would have been important for the strategists), so rolling for potential victims, say at the end of a minelaying patrol or during the subsequent refit month, and adding that total to your career is legit. Whether it should count as tonnage for patrol/award/promotion purposes, well, that I'll leave up to the GMs. :-) I agree that the table is a bit generous. I was doing some calculations about percentages. If I recall correctly, there is about a 42% chance of sinking a ship. Of that, small freighters the most common, and tankers and warships the least. I may dig into mines effectiveness. I will not be including this tonnage for mission totals, but will include in career totals.
|
|
rodmod
Submarine Commander
Posts: 33
|
Post by rodmod on Sept 10, 2023 16:56:36 GMT
In WWI, German submarine-laid mines were extremely effective, IIRC. I also recall reading somewhere that the Type UC-II minelaying submarines, in terms of tonnage sunk, were some of the most, if not THE most, effective submarines of all time. Nearly all their sinkings were caused by mines.
In WWII, the effect of mines seems to have been considerably less. But obviously, they still posed a serious threat to shipping, and were sometimes effective. IIRC, one of the last vessels sunk by a U-boat in WWII was an English trawler which struck a mine laid by a Type VIID.
|
|