rodmod
Submarine Commander
Posts: 33
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Post by rodmod on Nov 26, 2023 16:14:59 GMT
As noted, I've run into the somewhat uncommon situation where the CO was KIA but the boat (other than some hull damage) survived the patrol. In a "normal" game using the rules as written, the game would immediately end, with the player starting over with a new CO, new boat, and new crew.
However, given the narrative and chronological structure of this game, I feel it makes sense in this case to promote the (named) XO and keep chronicling the life of the submarine in question, treating the boat as a character of sorts (like you have in Star Trek, for example). The Second Officer would take the XO position, and a new Third Officer (if applicable) would be added to the crew.
I also think that any accrued tonnage by one CO should "follow" the boat. What I mean is that while tonnage is "reset" for promotion and award purposes with a new CO, the total tonnage sunk by a particular boat should be tracked. As an example, U-48, the most successful U-boat of WWII, had a number of commanders who added to her tonnage total (some more successfully than others).
Thoughts?
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Post by ChefEd on Nov 26, 2023 16:28:02 GMT
I agree 100%.
Considering this should be a narrative environment, with some grip on reality, it makes sense to continue with the "old" boat.
This circumstance could add greatly to the narrative. New commander, old crew. Old crew loyalties to the deceased 'skipper', wariness about the 'new' commander. (Assuming one is brought in from outside the boat.)
Maybe a die-roll to simulate Submarine Command opting between replacing or promoting to the vacant position.
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rodmod
Submarine Commander
Posts: 33
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Post by rodmod on Nov 26, 2023 17:24:16 GMT
I like the idea of rolling to see if a new CO is brought in from outside. I'd take it as probable, but not guaranteed, that the XO would be promoted. Perhaps a die roll skewed toward the likelihood of the XO being promoted.
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Post by crushedhat on Nov 26, 2023 18:48:32 GMT
A couple of thoughts:
From the practical side, there is the added burden on the Admin of tracking two tonnage totals, one for Commander, another for the Boat. But, ChefEd being an Admin and in support, I guess it's not viewed as that big a burden. I know that when Silent Victory starts up there are separate awards for Commander and Boat/Crew.
From an experience perspective, albeit reserve rather than active duty though I doubt it's that different, A commander was seldom elevated to command the unit they were currently serving in. In my own case, I held two commands. The first was a different unit than the one from which I was promoted from XO. While my second command was a unit in which I had served as a junior officer, there was an eight-year span between the two assignments. I will note that this is different than for NCOs, who are promoted from the ranks. That is probably why the NCOs are viewed as providing continuity within a unit. I'm not sure how other countries militaries handle this.
As an added consideration, at some point during the war, the US Navy instituted a policy of rotating a submarine commander out after four or five patrols. Eugene Fluckey references this policy, and his efforts to finagle an additional patrol, in his wartime memoir of commanding USS Barb, "Thunder Below." An interesting read, and career; Fluckey and Barb were credited with 'sinking' a train among other innovative submarine actions.
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Post by ChefEd on Nov 26, 2023 19:20:16 GMT
In no particular order:
1) I use an Excel spreadsheet for my patrol logs. For The Hunters and The Hunted, where tonnage totals are utilized for awards, I insert a =SUM() formula to total tonnage AFTER an award, i.e. a Knight's Cross+. I update the range after each award upgrade. For me, adding a cell to track an individual commander is no big deal.
Also, I maintain several Excel files to track both the individual subs, as well as the flotilla. I could easily update them to reflect changes in command.
2) I experienced one change of command ceremony, in the Marines. Our squadron CO was being replaced, and they brought in an outside Lt Col. It does make sense to replace from outside the unit.
3) A die-roll favoring outside replacement could be made. Depending on how unlikely an inside promotion might occur, these internal options: for any die 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d20, a DR of 1 or 1-2. Pick an appropriate die and range that might reflect the most likely odds.
4) Referencing the movie 'Run Silent, Run Deep', an outside CO replacement was highly resented, while the expected promotion of the XO was problematic, due to the highly familiar and somewhat casual relationship between the XO and the crew. Either case could be an opportunity to complicate the game(s) a bit more. Either situation could provide detrimental modifiers for the first patrol.
5) In the end, perhaps individual preference of internal or external change of command. Since tonnage awards go to the CO, we could reset the tonnage clock to zero whenever that may occur.
That is enough muddying of the waters.
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rodmod
Submarine Commander
Posts: 33
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Post by rodmod on Nov 26, 2023 19:55:56 GMT
I took the liberty of rolling, and came up with the XO replacing the deceased CO in this case. IIRC, in the book BETASOM by Marek Sobski, there are several incidents of XOs of Italian boats taking over upon the reassignment of their COs. It would appear that, at least in the RM, this was not an unknown occurrence (if perhaps uncommon). But it's up to the admins how they want to handle it - I'm ok with whatever you guys decide.
Usually, boats are lost with all hands in these games - so we won't run into the issue of replacement COs very often. I was honestly very surprised when it happened. But, making the best of a bad die roll, I thought it would make for an interesting narrative to continue the boat's story in this case. I've played these games for years, and I've only had a CO KIA roll happen a couple of times.
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